Broadcast 3103 Jose Ocasio-Christian and Totran Nguyen

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Guests:  Jose Ocasio-Christian, ToTran Nguyen;  Topics:  Community in Space, Caelus Partners, lessons learned, investment in space, Caelus Foundation work, why space, space development and more.  Please direct all comments and questions regarding specific Space Show programs & guest(s) to the Space Show blog which is part of archived program on our website,  Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See   

We welcomed back Jose Ocasio-Christian and for the first time we welcomed ToTran Nguyen for this two segment two hour discussion regarding the work of Caelus Partners and the newly formed Caelus Foundation.  During the first half of the program or the first segment, Jose explained and then updated us on new developments with Caelus Partners and the creation of the new Caelus Foundation.  In addition, Jose spent time describing in detail their program "Community In Space."  This first segment provided a comprehensive overview of the Caelus activities, plus we fielded several listener email questions which added to our understanding of the work being undertaken by the Caelus team.  Discussion examples include information on the team and why it consists of the magic number of eight members.  Important to this discussion was the result of Caelus fundraising activities and the unusual outcome which you will want to hear as it was probably a first!  Don't miss it.  We learned about their six global operations underway including two such operations in the US, European, and African regions.  At my request, Jose went over the Community in Space vision with us and the need to be economically focused, both regionally and on a global level. 

Listener emails covered many additional areas of inquiry.  For example, Jerry in Iowa asked how Caelus differentiated itself from other space development, consulting and public/NGO & private organziations.  Jose had much to say in response to Jerry's inquiry so don't miss it as it was very informative, especially concerning space consultancy projects and organizations.  Jerry's question led us to the topic of lessons learned, something that Jose wanted to talk about in detail.

Caelus has learned much since they started their operations and even since their initial visit to The Space Show in December 2017.  Jose detailed many of the lessons learned during the balance of our first segment discussion.  In short, lessons learned included understanding that space was a customer focused market.  We talked in terms of B to B to C which Jose explained in detail.  I asked questions about lack of a real customer market in many of the emerging commercial space industries though there was a tendency to focus on the satellite industry.  As you have heard me say on many shows, I suspect that we will see company capability develop faster than demand to make use of all of it.  I suspect, like with most new industries, we will see a type of self-cleaning with mergers, acquisitions, business failures and the like, eventually leaving a smaller but more robust and competitive industry with more or less normal patterns of growth and development.  I asked Jose about this which he gladly discussed with us.  Again, the focus ended up being on LEO constellations, future interference issues, potential regulatory challenges and more.  You do not want to miss this discussion.  Related to this topic was an email from Josh about the practice of warehousing satellite frequencies.  Note that the author of a paper on the topic that I mentioned will be a guest on The Space show on June 3, 2018.  Jose had much to say about large LEO constellations, warehousing frequencies, and business practices of various private sector organizations.  Note the objectivity and lack of judgement that Caelus brings to the table to help further their vision and goals. 

An additional first segment topic focused on financing and investment returns.  Here, Jose introduced us to the concepts of both innovation and disruption and he talked at length about the differences between the two.  Listen to how he defined innovation and disruption.  Let us know what you think by posting your comments about this on TSS blog for this show. 

We opened the second segment by asking Jose about trends and future predictions for the overall space industry.  Jose was not short of words or important content in responding to this set of questions so don't miss the discussion.  As a tease to the discussion, we talked about returning to the Moon and using lunar resources.  Jose said much about potential future lunar opportunities for businesses as well as both government and NGO organizations. 

Jose switched us to talking about the Caelus Foundation and introduced us to ToTran Nguyen who is the Executive Director of the Caelus Foundation.  ToTran had several very interesting and applicable stories to tell us revolving around her own background.  ToTran was not a space cadet so do pay attention to how she came to space and to Caelus.  What were the factors that attracted her to space, the arguments that persuaded her that the path to accomplishing many of her goals and her vision went directly through space.  Perhaps these same arguments and tools can be used to assist more in the general public to value the path through space for economic development both globally and at the regional level. 

Both ToTran and Jose were at the just concluded Space Foundation's 34 annual symposium and they had much to say about the part Caelus played at the event.  Caelus held a special invited "meeting' which our guests described.  They talked about the Space Symposium actors but more important, the reception that Caelus got from these actors with their special event.  Don't miss what our guests had to say about this as it goes a long way in validating the Caelus hypothesis we talked about earlier in the show. 

Later in our discussion, our guests talked about clearing up challenges, confusions and words  and concepts carrying baggage.  I brought up one charged word that we have talked about before on The Space Show, "colonization" (and colony) rather than settlement.  I noted how hard it has been to accomplish an industry change to settlement rather than to continue using colonization and similar words.  Our guests had much to say about this so don't miss it.  Keep in mind, that if we think of space development as global and for the benefit of all, including economic benefit, using a word like colony does not go over well for many because of the history of colonial days that were horrible for people all over the world.  Why speak in terms that suggest bad times for millions of people rather than something beneficial and promising for both the present and the future such as a space settlement?  Our guests continued talking about the work and plans for the Foundation, asking how best to move forward with their areas of interest.

As the end of our program was approaching, Randy asked if Caelus had educational outreach plans and if they were going to work the space conference scene and if so, what type of conferences would they be attending in order to present the Caelus program.  Our guests mentioned a few near term conferences and then mentioned that their focus was not on advocacy so they would not be engaging in educational outreach.  Instead, they were focused more on helping to create opportunities for people to use space every day in their lives.  This prompted a question by Helen in Portland referencing old comments I've made on the show about a friend of mine doing outreach years ago in Tanzania.  Our guests talked about discussing the unknown and how to step by step reach people as described in Helen's question/comment.  Don't miss this mini-discussion.

As we were nearing the end of our program, awareness and The Overview Effect were brought into the discussion.  I also asked ToTran how she would recruit fertile minds to "get it" about the need for space based on her own experiences and journey.  Listen to what she had to say in response to this question.  Just before the show ended, I asked both our guests if they would do outreach re the Caelus vision to prisoners.  I must have pushed some buttons because both Jose and ToTran could not wait to respond to my question.  Jose was first followed by ToTran.  You absolutely want to hear what both had to say about prisoner outreach.   

Both our guests provided concluding comments that you will want to hear.  Please post your comments/questions on TSS blog.  You can reach either or both of our guests through me plus I will make sure they both see blog posts for this two hour discussion.




updates for the Caelus Partners "Community in Space" Project

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20 Apr 2018 Jose Ocasio-Christian, ToTran Nguyen
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