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Guests: Col. M. V. (Coyote Smith; Dr. David Livingston: ISDC 2008 Interview # 4 starts off with a quality discussion with Col. M. V. (Coyote) Smith, USAF, regarding the business case potential and the need for developing space solar power. This is a hard-hitting discussion in the hotel coffee shop about what is needed for space solar power to be developed. During this interview, not only do we discuss business case facts, but energy policy, the capability of the private sector to develop a demo project, other nations and their work toward SSP as well as their capability to do the project. We also looked back in time to see if we were ready to start SSP back in the days of gas lines during the Carter presidency. Coyote also talked about the small SSP demo project to be carried out within a few years with the help of the Eisenhower Center for Space and Defense Studies in Colorado Springs, CO. This small demo project, designed primarily as a student project with students from the AF Academy as well as other schools, will light an LED from a space solar satellite that the students will build and deploy. You do not want to miss this discussion. The second part of this interview from ISDC is my session talk that runs about 75 minutes. My talk was entitled "Reality Check: How To Be Taken Seriously When Rhetoric Rules." The talk was recorded by someone other than me, so the audio quality is not great. However, it was sufficient to archive as part of this set of interviews. I start out my talk showing how I used rhetoric and bought into the Kool Aid of the time with parts of my doctoral dissertation. I move beyond myself as an example and talk about some issues I often talk about on the show, such as inflated and embellished rhetoric and why that poisons the well for the serious space players and those small, but solid companies search for financing and support. I also hit on some sacred cows and talk about the many churches that have developed over time in space development and NewSpace, securing a large membership of "true believers." SSP was one subject that fell into this category but I made an effort to distinguish between serious SSP developers and the Church of Space Solar Power. My talk is sure to ruffle feathers, make friends, anger some, and to be attacked. I urge those of you who want to take issue with some or all of my comments to do so, but remember, "shooting the messenger" does not help make your case. I suggest countering anything I say that you believe needs countering with facts and real life examples, not wish list items. If you can do that, I am all ears and am as interested in learning and advancing my thoughts as anybody else. Questions, comments, and inquiries about SSP with Col. Smith or my talk should be sent to me at email@example.com. If your comments are for Coyote, I will promptly forward them.